implied odds and isolation raises

[batgirl218]

Hey everyone,

So last night I played in the Luvin Poker $5.50 buy-in game and I had a few interesting hands to put up that we can take a look at.

These first two are how to live and die by limping early in a tournament. I'm a big big fan of playing loose early in the game when my stack is deep enough (50 M minimum) and love to splash around in a lot of pots trying to hit something and scoop someone's entire stack out from underneath them. It's a good tactic as long as you have a lot of discipline. Discipline to shut it down when the blinds catch up to and discipline to lay down a hand that hit the flop but not as well as it should, or it hit the flop but not strong enough against a tighter player, what have you.

Everleaf Gaming Game #215509546
***** Hand history for game #215509546 *****
Blinds 15/30 NL Hold'em - 2010/11/12 - 03:10:58
Table 3
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players: 7
Seat 1: Wade_Radio ( 2525 Chips )
Seat 2: LPBatgirl218 ( 2470 Chips )
Seat 3: shebully ( 2315 Chips )
Seat 4: BayJack ( 2900 Chips )
Seat 6: chevanater ( 5100 Chips )
Seat 7: loxxra13 ( 2310 Chips )
Seat 8: bretta ( 2165 Chips )
loxxra13: posts small blind [ 15 Chips]
bretta: posts big blind [ 30 Chips]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LPBatgirl218 [ Th, 9h ]
Wade_Radio folds

Ok so here's a great hand for implied odds play, if I am going to play this hand I want to play it multi-way because I will either hit a draw or walk away. I will throw this away should the board come ten high or nine high. I have no reason to go broke with one pair at 15/30. So I decide to limp.

LPBatgirl218 calls [ 30 Chips]
shebully calls [ 30 Chips]
BayJack calls [ 30 Chips]
chevanater calls [ 30 Chips]
loxxra13 calls [ 15 Chips]
bretta raises [ 150 Chips]

Ok back to me for 120 more, I don't mind a call here but I want to see what kind of player I am dealing with. I have never played this player before but they are making me lean towards a gambler. Lots of splashing and raising. So I decide to make the call with the thought in mind that if the flop hits me I can take his entire stack. The pot odds are poor but the implied odds are 20-1 as they stand now...and even more if someone over calls behind me.

LPBatgirl218 calls [ 150 Chips]
shebully folds
BayJack folds
chevanater calls [ 150 Chips]
loxxra13 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2h, Kh, 8h ]
bretta: bets [ 240 Chips]

Well we hit the flop, ok we killed the flop, however a big heart could be lurking and I don't really like Chevanater in this hand. So that's one vote for raising here. The other vote for raising comes from the fact that the gambler has made a bet and I might lose him later on should a fourth heart come and if he doesn't have one my party is ruined. Another thing to point out about gamblers is they take raises personally, they can't stand that someone is trying to "outbully" them.

Thats one thing about most intermediate poker players. They like to think everyone plays like them. Think about it, bluffers always call raises because they think someone is bluffing them just because they do it to everyone else. Rocks fold because any bet from another player MUST mean they have the nuts, no matter how off chance it is. It's like that in real life, the people who don't trust other people is usually because they are untrustworthy to begin with. People think other people act just like they do for better or worse.

So anyways back to the hand. I am raising here because A I only want one person in this pot B I am protecting my hand against a stray ace, queen or jack of hearts C I am taking a chance on an early and kinda flimsy player profile and D for value.

It's always important to know WHY you are raising and not just IF you are raising.

LPBatgirl218 raises [ 1,350 Chips]
chevanater folds
bretta calls [ 1,110 Chips]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Js ]
bretta checks

That's a great card for me and my raise on the flop got chev (who is TAGish when he wants to be) out of the pot and it kept the gambler in. So now there's really nothing left to do but shove, if he's going to call on only one street this would be it. If he is chasing a heart I can't let him draw for free.

LPBatgirl218: bets [ 940 Chips]
bretta calls [ 635 Chips]
** Dealing River ** [ Jd ]
LPBatgirl218 shows [ Th, 9h ] a flush, king high
bretta shows [ Kd, Ah ] two pairs, kings and jacks
LPBatgirl218 wins 4600 chips from main pot with a flush, king high [ Kh, Th, 9h, 8h, 2h ]

Part 2 to follow when I have more time....

Love and life,
BG

[KManDeuce]

Awkward stack sizes kinda. I think if you're hoping to use his desire to bully you, the raise could/should have been a little smaller on the flop. Your raise only leaves him with 635 behind. I doubt most people think they still have the chance to come over the top of you and blow you off your hand with 635 more when you just put in 1350. It's like a 1/6th pot raise. You can still make him make a mistake AND use your read by going to around 1000. But coming up with that number isn't exactly obvious, especially in the moment available.

I'll keep the rest of my editorializing to myself. Tee heeeee.

[batgirl218]

I had to make it bigger to keep chev out, the more people in the pot in the bigger the raise should be.

[KManDeuce]

Why are you so sure that keeping him out is a good thing?

[KManDeuce]

Grrr...wouldn't let me edit. I expanded on the sentiment above. If he has a better flush, then for sure you want him to fold. Trouble is, he never ever will or should. If he has a made hand worse than a flush, you're so, so, SO far ahead that 1000 is plenty to make him calling wonderful for you, except in the exact case he has a set and then it's close only if you're stacking off to any full house (you probably have to). If he's drawing to a better flush (which is awfully rare for that board and the action so far), again, you're giving him the price to make a mistake at 1000. If he has no made hand, and/or is drawing to a worse hand...yippeeeeee!!!!

[chevanater]

I think raising to 750-1000 is better because i am folding to a bet and a reraise unless i have flush or set, and if i have a draw you will have about a pot sized bet to get it in on nonheart turns. As for Bretta has top pair/topkicker on a way nice board w/ nut flush draw. You are both way getting it in anyways. Bretta is only really worried about the flush or set and still has a few outs against both