Good Fold?

[spaceboy761]

Just got through this hand. It looks like I folded the best hand, but would have gotten rivered anyway. Of course when you're 4-handed to the river, having the best hand doesn't mean a whole lot. Do you guys agree with the laydown? I just didn't have a ton of faith in top pair with queen kicker multi-handed.


Everleaf Gaming Game #232839458
***** Hand history for game #232839458 *****
Blinds $0.02/$0.04 NL Hold'em - 2011/01/16 - 19:12:41
Table Central Park XV
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players: 10
Seat 1: 4QUEENSZOSIA ( $ 2.58 USD )
Seat 2: spaceboy761 ( $ 3.96 USD )
Seat 3: 19JOKER69 ( $ 0.97 USD )
Seat 4: atalitskiy ( $ 3.37 USD )
Seat 5: diman28 ( $ 0.85 USD )
Seat 6: ralph777 ( $ 6.36 USD )
Seat 7: baddog4 ( $ 4.40 USD )
Seat 8: alexei22 ( $ 2 USD )
Seat 9: gambler45 ( $ 3.80 USD )
Seat 10: Vlad56 ( $ 3.62 USD )
diman28: posts small blind [$ 0.02 USD]
baddog4: posts big blind [$ 0.04 USD]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to spaceboy761 [ K[, Q] ]
gambler45 folds
Vlad56 calls [$ 0.04 USD]
4QUEENSZOSIA folds
spaceboy761 raises [$ 0.18 USD]
19JOKER69 folds
atalitskiy calls [$ 0.18 USD]
diman28 calls [$ 0.16 USD]
baddog4 folds
Vlad56 calls [$ 0.14 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6], 4+, K] ]
diman28 checks
Vlad56: bets [$ 0.76 USD]
spaceboy761 calls [$ 0.76 USD]
atalitskiy calls [$ 0.76 USD]
diman28 calls [$ 0.67 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ J_ ]
Vlad56: bets [$ 2.68 USD]
spaceboy761 folds
atalitskiy calls [$ 2.43 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ A_ ]
atalitskiy shows [ A], 8] ] a pair of aces
diman28 shows [ 3], 3[ ] a pair of threes
Vlad56 shows [ K_, 7_ ] a pair of kings
atalitskiy wins $ 3.28 USD from main pot with a pair of aces [ A], A_, K], J_, 8] ]
atalitskiy wins $ 4.88 USD from side pot with a pair of aces [ A], A_, K], J_, 8] ]

[WinJStar]

Yea, you would have got rivered. I would have probably called. I see what you were saying about multi handed and probably being beat, but he was first to act. He didn't re-raise you or anything. Without knowing what the suits are, I sometimes will overbet with top pair on the flop if there are 2 cards of the same suit so it costs a lot to chase the flush. It turned out to be a good lay down, so playing it safe worked for you.

[wabbit]

Vlad56 with top pair and weak kicker was in it regardless...atalitskiy got lucky on the River...yeah a bigger bet on the flop might have chased atalitskiy away from the pot and then it would have just been you against the weaker kicker and the guy with the pair of threes. It is easy to second guess after the hand is over and with four players in the hand you gotta figure one of them to be holding an Ace or perhaps two pair going to the River when the bets are $2.68 and $2.43.

[spaceboy761]

That's what I figured. At some point, I just had to question the value of KKQxx multihanded. The table wound up pretty funny for me. I got dealt a lot of premium hands and played a ton of pots.

[KManDeuce]

It's stunning to me that it's 2011 and a discussion about turn decision includes any mention of the card that came on the river. Almost as stunning is talk of the decision based on the exact two cards that the opponent(s) held. Might as well include what to do in 50 years when your time machine is finished.

As for the hand, no mention of any history or read on any player involved...does that imply you're brand new to the table and don't have any? Knowing that a player thinks K-rag is a hand worth limping out of position and then calling a raise and three callers would be great info. So would knowing whether or not he thinks top pair = nuts. Or if he would never do this with less than two pair or will he play a draw this way, etc. Same for the button calling station. Do we know what this behavior means for HIM as opposed to just anyone? With no reads other than "two random $4-max players," I think it's pretty borderline. Flip a coin and call or fold based on the outcome!

Winnie, I think the suits are there, but got "screwed up" in translation of the hand history. If I read it correctly, the suits are represented by [, ], +, and _. So the button had a 3-flush and an over on the flop (goodness people play well, eh?) and an overcard AND the nut flush draw on the turn.

[KManDeuce]

OH...and the goal is to win money, not win pots. Making worse hands fold isn't the goal.

[spaceboy761]

Wow... and I somehow remember why I stopped posting here for nine months. If you could phrase your analysis in the form of not-insults, that would be great and I might consider posting in this chronically dead analysis forum again on what is supposed to be a poker site.

To somewhat answer your "questions", I was close to new at the table and I haven't played online in six months so I have no reads on anyone. Also, I just tossed in the comment about the river for the hell of it... it wasn't meant to have any bearing on a play decision. It was supposed to be a question about reading hand strength in a multiplayer pot.

[WinJStar]

Kman has a tender touch like a sledgehammer

[trauma]

Kman has a tender touch like a sledgehammer

^^^^^ Thats putting it nicely more like an anvil dropped from the 50th floor.

I suck at cash games.... Having said that with the limited information given I have to assume your new to the table and don't know the players. With the big bet on the flop and push on the turn I'm going to guess this guy has a pretty good hand, most likely better than mine. In a higher limit game I'm folding no question. At these limits I have a bad habit of going for the golden ring hell its a few bucks.

[KManDeuce]

I went back to clarify any insults that I may have inadvertenly made, but I couldn't find a single one (I guess I kinda took a swipe at the button calling station, but nothing mean-spirited). So I'll just keep on keeping on.

I re-thought it, and with truly zero reads it's probably a fold on the turn. The third flushing card, the increased likelihood of a second pair, the player still to act all are unpleasant. Still probably fairly borderline. I don't think the all-in player counts for much since the turn bet is so large that there's already a significant side pot and the all-in's action could really mean about any two cards. Probably the most important thing is to get typing on both the bettor and the caller once you see the nonsense they were pulling. This one hand is a note-taking gold mine.

And as another slightly aside comment...including opponents' cards and the river card in the information where you're ostensibly looking for objective commentary about the turn decision makes it nearly impossible for people to ignore that information when formulating ideas. I re-read that sentence four times, and while it's probably not the best ever written structurally speaking, I'm certain there wasn't an insult in it. Just to head that off at the pass.