AA in HU pot - Limit Hold 'Em

[KManDeuce]

Got a chance to play some poker last Sunday, which was nice since it's well-known I don't play much. Had a hand that was a bit of a head-scratcher, so I thought I'd bring it here...sorta. Let's go one street at a time.

It's a $4-8 Limit game. The only limit game running in a room with lots of No Limit cash tables and a No Limit tournament running. Player A has been at the table for exactly two hands (both pre-flop folds) before this one. I have AA in middle position and raise. Player A 3-bets from my immediate left. Folds around back to me. Go.

[Nynus]

Re-raise, then re-raise again until it's capped. (Most rooms have a cap even heads up in limit if the hand started with more than two players)

After the flop, depends on the board. If you hit your set and there isn't a three flush out there, or TJQ, then keep firing until you're both all in.

If you miss your set, and there's not three flush or TJQ, go at least to 4 bets.

On the turn and river put at least 2 bets in unless the board is paired.

You are a GIANT favorite pre-flop and there's no way you shouldn't get as much in a possible. Deception might gain you a few bets later, but's that's offset by the chance that you might be putting money in while behind.

It's limit. Play it straight up and keep firing until you get the feeling you aren't ahead. At that point, you've just got to grit your teeth, call it down and pray.

[WinJStar]

[KManDeuce]

Slow down there, mister!!! Haha. We're only on the pre-flop!

As much as possible, I've been pushing people here to bet when you're ahead over and over. In this unique situation--heads up in a limit game--someone much smarter and more experienced than me once told me is about his only exception to that rule. That especially at low limits, 4-betting pre-flop SCREAMS aces and just calling can be OK with plans to get aggressive later on. One piece I've struggled with mentally, as it's never really come up before to find out about it in practice...is when do you re-start the aggression? Anyway, those are just general thoughts. Back to this particular hand...

Let's say I just call. So we're 3-bets each heading to the flop. You mention raising until it's capped. That's one small wrinkle...this was a room I had never played in before, and I had just started so I didn't know if there was a cap or not in this situation. If there was one, I didn't know what it was. (I normally ask that kind of thing right when I sit down, but I just hadn't. Shame on me.) So the flop comes out J-8-6 rainbow. Do I lead out? Check and call and wait for a big street? Or check-raise? (I really hope someone suggests check-folding, just for the comedy. Tee hee.)

[chevanater]

i like to check-raise turn when the bets get bigger if they are type to fire all 3 streets

[Nynus]

Slow down there, mister!!! Haha. We're only on the pre-flop!

As much as possible, I've been pushing people here to bet when you're ahead over and over. In this unique situation--heads up in a limit game--someone much smarter and more experienced than me once told me is about his only exception to that rule. That especially at low limits, 4-betting pre-flop SCREAMS aces and just calling can be OK with plans to get aggressive later on. One piece I've struggled with mentally, as it's never really come up before to find out about it in practice...is when do you re-start the aggression? Anyway, those are just general thoughts. Back to this particular hand...

Let's say I just call. So we're 3-bets each heading to the flop. You mention raising until it's capped. That's one small wrinkle...this was a room I had never played in before, and I had just started so I didn't know if there was a cap or not in this situation. If there was one, I didn't know what it was. (I normally ask that kind of thing right when I sit down, but I just hadn't. Shame on me.) So the flop comes out J-8-6 rainbow. Do I lead out? Check and call and wait for a big street? Or check-raise? (I really hope someone suggests check-folding, just for the comedy. Tee hee.)

Most card rooms have a cap if the betting round starts off with more than two players. If it's heads up then usually there is no cap on betting. You can get it all in, but you have to do so in the limit of the increments of the limit.

Okay, that being said, there's $30 in the pot, or roughly 7 small bets.

You called his three bet so if you check he's going to bet regardless. You can then check raise, and get some info, and call if he re-raises. The pot would be $54 if he re-raises. (not counting the rake) If that happens you can pretty much eliminate all PP's except JJ, 88, 66, and the big aces like AK, AQ, AT. However, you might still be up against AJ, KK, QQ, JJ, 88, and 66. If he just calls your check raise, you're probably ahead with the aces and the pots at $46.

Here's an alternative -- lead out and bet. If he just calls, then you're pretty sure your ahead and that he's probably shutting it down and calling down to the river unless he improves. In this case the pots at $38. If he raises your lead out bet, then you call and the pots at $46, and you're looking at pretty much the same info as above but with one less small bet committed to the pot.

Personally, I like to bet the flop, let him raise, and the re-raise him back. If he re-raises for four bets you call and the pots at $62. Then you can safely put him on AA, KK, QQ, JJ, or AJ. I think the only realistic hand you have to fear is pocket Jacks. If that's the case you're going to pay him off unless your Ace hits.

One of the things about $4/$8 limit is that a lot of the moves in no limit have been showing up in limit play. This includes 3 betting lite with shitty PP's, and continuation raises with air. You also can't discount the fact that you might have someone with AA, KK, QQ, and AJ and they will keep betting and raising all the way to the river as long as there isn't an ace on the board. Some of the $4/$8 idiots will take any pair or AK, and do the same hoping to run you out of the hand, or catch. It's $4/$8 and a lot of the players think they're Phil Ivey.

Also don't get caught up in "Fancy Play Syndrome". You stand a good chance of letting someone catch up and beat you while they're confused by all your bet changes, check raises, and traps. That's why I prefer to play it straight up and strong.

In the advice you mentioned about heads up and pocket aces, I believe the source of the advice was mentioning sneaking in with aces when there is a raise in front of you, and you're last to act. Then you've disguised your strength, and pounce with a check raise on the turn. I don't agree with that advice. You might build up a bigger pot, but you also increase the chances of getting beat. However, if you look at my examples above, you've got 15 small bets into the pot and you haven't even got to the turn yet. Even if you bet and just get called on the turn and river, you're still looking at 11 big bets in the pot or $88. Not a bad $4/$8 pot heads up.

[trauma]

I'm with Paul on the pre flop play. Bet until its capped get as much money in the pot pre flop as you can. If there is no cap yee haw I would have no problem getting my money in pre flop with Ace's. I don't think passive play is the way to go.

[KManDeuce]

As for the cap rule, again, I simply didn't know the specific rule at this room having not played there ever before. I know the gist is similar, but there are differences. For instance, in my "home" room (on the rare occasion I play) removes the cap even if the round started with more than two players, but it gets heads-up during the betting round. Anyway...that's an aside.

So let's say I had some notion that I would wait to spring my trap until the turn (so I just check-call the flop). And it comes out another Jack (so J-J-8-6 still rainbow, I think). Now how much worry do I need to show? Am I leading out? Check-calling? Check-raising? And oh, please, someone suggest check-folding. Pleeeeease! Haha.

[Nynus]

You're not check folding there in limit unless you're 99% sure that he has a jack.

With the second jack, you're in turtle mode now. The goal now is to lose as few chips as possible.

If you lead out and he raises you probably have to call. Costing you two big bets and possibly a third bet on the river.

If you lead out and he calls you can probably lead out on the river and he calls. Cost is two big bets.

If you check - call and then check - call the river it costs you two big bets.

I'd probably shut it down and check/call unless you hit one of your four outs on the river. Namely one of the two aces, or one of two jacks for a full house. If he has quad jacks, pay him off. I have almost never given up betting thinking my opponent has quads. If I do, it's because he's shown a physical tell that gives me that info.

Hopefully it turns out well for you. If an ace hits and he had 88 or a Jack, you've got a chance to felt him.

[trauma]

I would be check calling to the river. If I had a few cocktail in me I might check raise just to see how strong he was. He maybe playing k's or q's a check raise would make him nervous. If he comes back with a re-raise your likely screwed, and you've put 16 bucks more in the pot than you needed too but if he just flat calls, well that make the river a bit more interesting.