Stupid, Ignorant or Uninformed??

[bluffmanxx]

I often wonder how people make decisions. How do they process data and reach conclusions?? I've seen many well educated people that take information and reach really bad conclusions. Smart people with no common sense. Ordinary people who are totally uninterested in information that affects their lives. And then there are people like Paul Krugman, a PhD and nobel prize winner who make statements like this:

And in low-tax, low-spending Texas, the kids are not all right. The high school graduation rate, at just 61.3 percent, puts Texas 43rd out of 50 in state rankings. Nationally, the state ranks fifth in child poverty; it leads in the percentage of children without health insurance. And only 78 percent of Texas children are in excellent or very good health, significantly below the national average.



Only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators and have deemed it illegal. Those states and their ranking on ACT/SAT scores are as follows:

South Carolina – 50th
North Carolina – 49th
Georgia – 48th
Texas – 47th
Virginia – 44th

as if the only thing that has an impact on test scores is the unionization of teachers.

here is a bit of information the esteemed mr. krugman determined irrevelant:

the number of minority students, who (choose a reason) score lower on standardized tests. shall we look at some test scores that are broken down by race??

2009 4th Grade Math

White students: Texas 254, Wisconsin 250 (national average 248)
Black students: Texas 231, Wisconsin 217 (national 222)
Hispanic students: Texas 233, Wisconsin 228 (national 227)

2009 8th Grade Math

White students: Texas 301, Wisconsin 294 (national 294)
Black students: Texas 272, Wisconsin 254 (national 260)
Hispanic students: Texas 277, Wisconsin 268 (national 260)

2009 4th Grade Reading

White students: Texas 232, Wisconsin 227 (national 229)
Black students: Texas 213, Wisconsin 192 (national 204)
Hispanic students: Texas 210, Wisconsin 202 (national 204)

2009 8th Grade Reading

White students: Texas 273, Wisconsin 271 (national 271)
Black students: Texas 249, Wisconsin 238 (national 245)
Hispanic students: Texas 251, Wisconsin 250 (national 248)

2009 4th Grade Science

White students: Texas 168, Wisconsin 164 (national 162)
Black students: Texas 139, Wisconsin 121 (national 127)
Hispanic students: Wisconsin 138, Texas 136 (national 130)

2009 8th Grade Science

White students: Texas 167, Wisconsin 165 (national 161)
Black students: Texas 133, Wisconsin 120 (national 125)
Hispanic students: Texas 141, Wisconsin 134 (national 131)

18 categories, and lowly non-union Texas beats unionized Wisconsin in 17 of them!! How can this be??

This is the sort of crap, absolute crap that Krugman spouts on a daily basis. Is he a flat out liar, too lazy to dig a bit deeper or so stupid that he does not realize things are never as superficial as they might seem at first glance??

My take: Krugman is destructive, disingenious, ideological blow hard and the people who blindly agree with him are lemmings. Fuck You Paul Krugman, you have become a clown.

This is the crap that is being fed to people by such esteemed organizations as the NEW YORK TIMES, yet FOX NEWS gets skewered by the left for it's supposed lack of journalistic integrity.

Can we ever be objective and realize that both sides have some of the answers and that nobody ever (thank god) gets everything they want??

[billynomates]

Paul Krugman, you have become a clown.

Laziness! People start thinking he's an expert on every subject he writes about, he starts believing the hype and has become lazy and sloppy, which is sad because he is a clever man- he's just too idle to make the best of his ability.

[curtinsea]

I don't see how teachers being union or non union has anything to do with how well they are teaching their students.

The argument I always hear from education is that we need to have better compensation packages to attract better teachers. While it's true that better compensation will attract good teachers, it will also attract bad teachers.

And how do we tell them apart? And for that matter, how do we get rid of teachers who are bad to make room for more good ones?

This is the problem with education unions. They resist all attempts to measure the effectiveness of teachers. They also resist merit pay, which would provide better compensation packages for the good teachers.

So how do we negotiate this? How about a) established quality standards that all teachers must meet, b) abandon 'tenure' completely. Relics from the 70's should be encouraged to move on so a new generation of highly educated educators can replace them, and c) establish merit pay, so that teachers who excel can be rewarded for it, further encouraging other teachers to excel.

If the unions can get wrapped around real solutions, rather than self-interest, then I have no qualms with the unions at all. But as it stands, they are in the way of real education reform in this county because of their self serving nature.

Remember, the teachers union really only cares about itself, then it's membership, and is really unaffected by the quality of education provided to the children of our nation.

They are not on our side.

[bluffmanxx]

one bit i left out that makes krugman the clown look even worse. i think most people realize that texas has a large hispanic population, but i guess he was unaware of the demographic differences between white bread wisconsin and redneck texas. here is the breakdown: Wisconsin (4% black, 4% Hispanic) Texas (12% black, 30% Hispanic)

who would think that having so many minorities and the cultural and language differences would make a difference.

in fact, this is exactly why u.s. scores seem low when compared to most other nations. are we #1?? i doubt it...but a large immigrant population and huge numbers of students for whom english is a second language drags down learning and test scores.

[NoAngel2u]

Doug, are we crucifying Paul for this one thing, or is he habitually wrong, or does he get some shit right too? Is he totally wrong most of the time, or just doesn't agree with your perspective on things? Any chance we could have a link to that article.

Also, got any well educated, well publicized right wingers on your list of "destructive, disingenious, ideological blow hards you'd like to inform us about, or are you just after bitching about the lefties?" You know, in the interest of the equality of idiocy

btw, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people that hold FOX in high esteem and a lot of righty tighties that skewer CNN as lacking journalistic integrity.

[DJQ]

WTF Doug? I thought you were bigger than this. Why do you have to bring "Race" into it. Why can't you see a kid as a kid and not a color?

[NoAngel2u]

WTF Doug? I thought you were bigger than this. Why do you have to bring "Race" into it. Why can't you see a kid as a kid and not a color?

I'm pretty sure that Doug didn't compile that information, he's just sharing it to make his point. Why is that a crime?

Would you deny the argument that opportunities for minority children are not what they are for white and financially privileged children, and balk at statistical information supporting that? Would that be ok to talk about as it pertains to their race?

[bluffmanxx]

Doug, are we crucifying Paul for this one thing, or is he habitually wrong, or does he get some shit right too? Is he totally wrong most of the time, or just doesn't agree with your perspective on things? Any chance we could have a link to that article.

Also, got any well educated, well publicized right wingers on your list of "destructive, disingenious, ideological blow hards you'd like to inform us about, or are you just after bitching about the lefties?" You know, in the interest of the equality of idiocy

btw, I'm pretty sure there are a lot of people that hold FOX in high esteem and a lot of righty tighties that skewer CNN as lacking journalistic integrity.

he has become a habitual fucktard. cherry picks facts that support his delusional ideas. while i'm sure there are a few worthwhile nuggets in his head, most of what he tries to pass off as reality is either flat out wrong or omits so many facts as to be useless. so it's not just this article, i've been wanting to skewer him for some time but needed a day where a nice rant would feel good ;-)

righties that i think have gone off the tracks?? well, michael savage comes to mind but he is not held in high regard by the established media, glenn beck throws a lot of shit against the wall - although he can be very informative and has actually done credible good with his in depth reporting. it's just that although he presents a lot of good information his conclusions are spotty and his "predictions" are often flat out wrong.

but hey, it's franks job to rip on fox, let me take pleasure in ripping on msnbc and liars like krugman!!

[bluffmanxx]

WTF Doug? I thought you were bigger than this. Why do you have to bring "Race" into it. Why can't you see a kid as a kid and not a color?

are you denying that performance issues based on race are a factor in test scores??

btw, where did i ever say that blacks and hispanics score lower simply due to the fact that they are black or hispanic?? i did not.

but to deny that things like income inequality, language and cultural "norms" affect education outcomes is simply putting your head in the sand. why do asian kids do so well?? because their families put a strong emphasis on education. why do blacks as a whole do so poorly?? because the black family unit has mostly disintegrated in the past 50 years. what percentage of black kids have a stable home environment and whose fault is it that so few of them do?? IMO it's one of the great unintended consequences when the government plays "daddy". but that's another discussion, maybe you can start a thread on why the black family unit has fallen apart in the last 50 years.

if you really want to know what i think about race, come on down and visit and look at my bar compared to others in the area. $100 says mine is the most racially diverse around. good people are good people, and many of the bad ones are a product of their environment.

[curtinsea]

as far as I'm concerned it's six of one, half dozen of the other. Is the NYTImes a left wing propaganda machine? of course! Is FOX news a right wing propaganda machine? you bet!

now step forward. It's simple really, just use your head. You can't just go with one source of info because you like what they say, nor can you discount another because they present a different slant. You need to take in all the information you can get, digest it, think about it, and draw your own conclusions.

Then in your own words, express your point of view.

There is so much of "your guys are full of shit" and "oh yeah, well your guys are nazis" and "oh yeah your guys are marxists" and "oh yeah well your guys are bought and paid for " and blah fucking blah blah blah

It's all designed for the effect it gets . . . . kool-aid drinkers reposting their nonsense as if it were gospel, without even digesting it first.

what does any of it really have to do with why we spend so much and get so little when it comes to education in America? Where are the real ideas?

"more money" isn't good enough, you gotta come with at least "more money for . . . "

Let's have some ideas for the common good for a goddamn change