OK ... So Congress is lame ... So who you gonna vote for?

[bluffmanxx]

first of all, if the business environment in the u.s. is better than it is elsewhere, the jobs will stay here. plain and simple - if the bottom line looks better building a plant in the u.s. it will be built here.

many factors determine where jobs go. part of it is the availability of a competent workforce. guess what?? as other nations emerge from third world status they tend to have a more educated population, thus presenting opportunities for business to relocate. the next issue is proximity to markets. again, as economies elsewhere improve their buying power increases, thus creating viable markets for goods and services, again presenting opportunities for business relocation.

trade agreements like NAFTA are a response to those emerging markets. the agreements may not be perfect, but ignoring those emerging markets would be an equally flawed response.

finally, tax and regulation affect where business goes. when foreign countries provide incentives, lower taxes, less regulation, a viable workforce and a growing market - what business with the ability to expand or move operations would not do so??

the bottom line is that we have to compete for those jobs, they are not our god given right to have and hold for all eternity.

instead, what is happening?? we are making the business environment MORE hostile to those who sign the paychecks, and the results are predictable.

in all honesty the housing bubble and before it the dot com bubble (asset inflation) has masked these problems for the better part of 2 decades, now we have to deal with the compound effect of these problems and the deflation of those assets. blaming bush, clinton, carter, the republicans, the democrats or anyone else solves nothing.

establishing policy that attracts business, creates jobs and restores confidence is what we need. our current president and his economic advisers don't seem to understand this (or are ignoring it) and instead want to remake the nation in a way that enables mediocrity.

[Moab]

One thing for sure ..wages are so low here in the Estados Unidos' that China is planning on building a steel plant in the South and also manufacture solar panels ..

I guess Reaganomics, worked with trickle down NAFTA and deregulation.

Call me when US corporations are opening plants here.

[bluffmanxx]

One thing for sure ..wages are so low here in the Estados Unidos' that China is planning on building a steel plant in the South and also manufacture solar panels ..

I guess Reaganomics, worked with trickle down NAFTA and deregulation.

Call me when US corporations are opening plants here.

they do all the time. that you choose to focus on the old, inefficient plants that close or ones that no longer produce goods the market wants, is your problem.

also, are you complaining about foreign investment in the u.s. workforce?? do you not understand that they want a piece of the huge market the u.s. represents?? since you are so concerned about jobs going offshore, you should embrace these corporations that build in the u.s. (except that competition scares the crap out of "progressives")

[billynomates]

Moab it doesn't help if the USA goes out of it's way to 'fine' companies which are half American so much that BP has to go to foreign investors for help. So future profits will not filter back to Americans.

[Moab]

BTW ... Bluff Issicsons Steel one of the Chinese plants interested in opening plants here in the south was originally in Seattle. When they closed in the 80's they dismantled the plant and shipped it to china ... sign and all.

We can do like Russia .. there they want the people to smoke more cigarettes and drink more vodka. For the extra tax. The former Soviet Empire which is now a capitalist country thanks to Ronald Reagan and his solo Under Dog super hero approach to bringing the commies to their knees ... now their down to selling old warheads and more vodka and cigarettes. Kinna like the US of A where ahalohism is on the rise amongst the younger generations. All in part due to the fucked up circumstances in our country.

[motherfunky]

Globalists don't care to look after Nation States... its as simple as that.

they tell you "you have no choice" but that's not true.

[bluffmanxx]

give a reasoned answer to her question and moab spins it around to russians selling warheads, drinking vodka and smoking cigarettes.

excellent example of why a discussion with her is near impossible.

[Moab]

I answered ... you're spinning by going on the attack .. please note I haven't name called in the last 4 sessions.

[bluffmanxx]

attack?? because i point out your attempts to distract from an actual discussion?? all the while ignoring the complex market forces that have been as much if not more responsible for jobs going offshore than any politicians or trade agreements. that steel company you mentioned left because it was more profitable to do so. they returned not to the northwest but the south because it's more profitable to do so.

you say you worry about the working class, but seem to have such low regard to those who provide those jobs. answer this - if the businesses stay, lose money and close, how many jobs remain?? by my estimate it's about the same number as if the business packs up and moves to china.

[Moab]

Hey .. I just pointed out the Russian solution ... Just think get all those Russians lung cancer and other smoking related health issues and then double the vodka in take .. These people will be dead before 44 in a country where people live into their 50's The savings in retirement and health-care will save the nation alone.

Just think if we could get the mortality rate down to about 45 instead of it's current 70ish life expetancy. No need for social security and medicare .. And all of those federal taxes we could from the addicted smokers and drinkers .. I figured you'd be happy owning a Tavern and all ....