Obama v. Cheney

[bluffmanxx]

Speeches Underscore "Great Dividing Line"

Obama And Cheney Offer Stark Ideological Differences On Interrogations Of Terrorists And How To Keep America Safe

America heard President Obama this morning from the National Archives and former Vice President Dick Cheney, a half mile away at the offices of the American Enterprise Institute.

They laid out the stark differences in their approaches to the interrogations of terrorists and the treatment and trial of detainees at Guantanamo Bay.

They both renewed their commitments to keeping America safe, but made it clear they thought the other's strategy would have the opposite effect.

Obama was bluntly critical of his predecessor’s policies calling them "a series of hasty decisions...based upon fear rather than foresight."

Cheney made no apologies for what he called "the comprehensive strategy" he said the Bush Administration developed "to make certain our nation never again faced such a day of horror."

To Obama, that strategy included breaches of America’s core values in the methods of surveillance, interrogation and detention of terror suspects.

To Cheney, the policies reflected powers derived from Article II of the Constitution and from the Joint Resolution of Congress authorizing the use of "all necessary and appropriate force" to protect the American people.

Cheney admitted the dispute represented "the great dividing line in our current debate over national security." And it was evident their minds would not be changed by the arguments of the other. Especially on the use of interrogation techniques that Mr. Obama called harsh and Cheney called tough.

"I know some have argued that brutal methods like water-boarding were necessary to keep us safe," said the president. "I could not disagree more."

"They were legal, essential, justified, successful, and the right thing to do," said Cheney of the interrogation methods.

[bluffmanxx]

i wonder if president Obama will will adopt the "same but different" policy on "enhanced interrogation" like he has done on Gitmo...

Obama Is Said to Consider Preventive Detention Plan

WASHINGTON — President Obama told human rights advocates at the White House on Wednesday that he was mulling the need for a “preventive detention” system that would establish a legal basis for the United States to incarcerate terrorism suspects who are deemed a threat to national security but cannot be tried, two participants in the private session said.

The discussion, in a 90-minute meeting in the Cabinet Room that included Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. and other top administration officials, came on the eve of a much-anticipated speech Mr. Obama is to give Thursday on a number of thorny national security matters, including his promise to close the detention center at the naval base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

Human rights advocates are growing deeply uneasy with Mr. Obama’s stance on these issues, especially his recent move to block the release of photographs showing abuse of detainees, and his announcement that he is willing to try terrorism suspects in military commissions — a concept he criticized bitterly as a presidential candidate.

The two participants, outsiders who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the session was intended to be off the record, said they left the meeting dismayed.

They said Mr. Obama told them he was thinking about “the long game” — how to establish a legal system that would endure for future presidents. He raised the issue of preventive detention himself, but made clear that he had not made a decision on it. Several senior White House officials did not respond to requests for comment on the outsiders’ accounts.

[billynomates]

You're trouble is Doug you try to make it sound as if Obama made these pledges without thinking them through properly make it sound as if he's the sort of person who says what he thinks what people want to hear.

[bluffmanxx]

oh, he has thought them through quite well, of that i am sure.

[billynomates]

Have you ever watched the OLD ultimate fighting videos? The fights BEFORE they made rules. Why do you think they ended up making rules nicci? It's because a master in ju jitsu or whatever his art would walk in the ring and get the living shit kicked out of him by a untrained street fighter. One headbutt to knock the guy down. Then he'd walk over and kick him in the head. Watch the fights and you will see. A master in his art would travel clear across the world for that to happen to him in a matter of minutes. The masters of there art quit coming nicci. So they made the rules making it nearly impossible for a street fighter to win. No headbutts, kicks to the head while the opponent is down or eye gouging. Nicci there are NO rules in a real fight or warfare. There are rules in a ring match.

Just hijacked Ezz'z comment from another thread

[billybob]

you're trouble is doug you try to make it sound as if obama made these pledges without thinking them through properly make it sound as if he's the sort of person who says what he thinks what people want to hear.

lmao now surely he would not do that!!