The new mosque

[billynomates]

I knew I was Muslim long before I knew I was British. And I knew I was Pakistani long before I knew I was English. It's hardly surprising. There was the blatant declaration that my mother, Umejee, used to make once every couple of months or whenever she felt the need. "We are a Muslim," she would state - mainly at times when she thought there had been too much western intrusion into the house. For example, on a Sunday evening when Songs of Praise was on the telly or when there was an ad for sizzling Danish bacon. “We are a Muslim.”

Sunday Times
Written by someone born in Britain, may answer why they were dancing in the streets and celebrating after 9/11.

when playing poker and someone raises you , is your first reaction 'well they're entitled to raise it's in the rules' or do you think 'why did he raise? was it to provoke or is he being genuine?

[bluffmanxx]

I have to agree with DJQ, the media are stirring the shit.

Lets say a Christian Church of Worship was built two blocks away from the site of the Oklahoma City Bombing (which was also an inside job), Timothy McVeigh was a Christian so would it be reasonable to say things like, They (as in Christian Church Builders) are making a statement, or they (as in Christian Church Builders) are slapping us in the face. ???? It wouldn't really because Christians aren't all like McVeigh are they.

Although I hate to disagree with the Lovely luvsluvin, ive gotta say the 911 commission clearly stated on the record for all to see that the money trail ie who funded the 911 attacks (not the mosque building 2 blocks away, ten years later) was of no significance.

Wouldn't it be more reasonable to scream bloody murder and put that "little" LOL injustice right before going around taring all Muslims with the predictable terrorist brush.

ok, let's see what sort of reaction we get when someone builds a church in a muslim holy place. this is like building a shrine to nazis outside a holocast memorial. sugar coat it however you like, but it is insensitive BS.

[DJQ]

ok, let's see what sort of reaction we get when someone builds a church in a muslim holy place.

Where exactly did you have in mind?

this is like building a shrine to nazis outside a holocast memorial.

You're right. Since Hitler was Catholic and shared Martin Luthers hatred of Jews, we shouldn't allow any Christian "shrines" to be built anywhere around any "holocast memorial".

sugar coat it however you like, but it is insensitive BS.

I agree, it's insensitive. But it's their right to do it.

[DJQ]

One thing that you need to keep in mind... These are "American" citizens that are trying to build a place for them to worship. The U.S. Constitution works for "ALL" of us equally.

If you want to argue against allowing these people to exercize their Contitutional rights then keep this in mind. Every year in this country more than twice the number of people that were killed on 9/11 are killed by guns. Does this mean that we should not allow the next door neighbor of someone that lost a family member to gun violence to buy a gun? After all, that would be "insensitive" to that person who may totally dislike guns. Of course not! That would be "UNConstitutial"!!

[billynomates]

ok, let's see what sort of reaction we get when someone builds a church in a muslim holy place

'I went to Tangiers, which claims to be the most liberal city in the most liberal muslim country in the world. The only Chuch now allowed to operate is down a back alley behind a sealed gate. You have to knock on gate and are then inspected before being allowed in. The pastor(American) told us he was regularly followed andc anyone he talked to was questioned in case he'd talked about Christ or religion.

That is why islam claims that eventually the whole world will be muslim because 'There's no laws in countries to stop us!' 23 mosques in NY now? Anybody want to bet that won't double in next 10 years? ok make it 8 years!

[motherfunky]

ok, let's see what sort of reaction we get when someone builds a church in a muslim holy place

First of all Ground Zero or two blocks away isnt considered a Holy place, and although many Muslim Countries are backward and are run in a manner which we in the West don't approve of, that doesnt mean you should mimic them, give up your freedoms and close down your society in the same way.

this is like building a shrine to nazis outside a holocast memorial.

Im not sugar coating anything, as I said its more like Building a Church two blocks away from the OK city bombing, what would be wrong with that?

The premise for your argument is that Muslims did it, if you believe the official 911 conspiracy theory you know Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda were blamed. So in reality your analogy would only work if a shrine to Al-Qaeda or Bin Laden was being proposed, which isn't the case is it?

So instead of behaving in a predictable but illogical way by getting mad with a whole Religion, why dont you get mad at the Head of the Bin Laden family who BTW was meeting with the head of the Bush family to "talk business" that very morning FACT!

Its not that I particularly love Muslims you understand Doug, I just don't like to witness Religious Bigitory and persecution without saying anything. You know, the sort of persecution the Nazis enjoyed. (since you mentioned them)

[bluffmanxx]

One thing that you need to keep in mind... These are "American" citizens that are trying to build a place for them to worship. The U.S. Constitution works for "ALL" of us equally.

and one thing you need to keep in mind is that those who are offended by the mosque have every right to protest, speak out and do everything legally possible to stop it. they can file any number of lawsuits on whatever grounds that are deemed admissible from traffic and parking concerns to whatever zoning laws might apply. in short, they can use the same tactics that elitist snobs have used to make businesses like wal-mart feel unwelcome in their neighborhoods. and it's all legal and PROTECTED by the constitution because both sides have rights.

[bluffmanxx]

Sacrilege at Ground Zero

By Charles Krauthammer
Friday, August 13, 2010

A place is made sacred by a widespread belief that it was visited by the miraculous or the transcendent (Lourdes, the Temple Mount), by the presence there once of great nobility and sacrifice (Gettysburg), or by the blood of martyrs and the indescribable suffering of the innocent (Auschwitz).

When we speak of Ground Zero as hallowed ground, what we mean is that it belongs to those who suffered and died there -- and that such ownership obliges us, the living, to preserve the dignity and memory of the place, never allowing it to be forgotten, trivialized or misappropriated.

That's why Disney's 1993 proposal to build an American history theme park near Manassas Battlefield was defeated by a broad coalition that feared vulgarization of the Civil War (and that was wiser than me; at the time I obtusely saw little harm in the venture). It's why the commercial viewing tower built right on the border of Gettysburg was taken down by the Park Service. It's why, while no one objects to Japanese cultural centers, the idea of putting one up at Pearl Harbor would be offensive.

And why Pope John Paul II ordered the Carmelite nuns to leave the convent they had established at Auschwitz. He was in no way devaluing their heartfelt mission to pray for the souls of the dead. He was teaching them a lesson in respect: This is not your place; it belongs to others. However pure your voice, better to let silence reign.

Even New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who denounced opponents of the proposed 15-story mosque and Islamic center near Ground Zero as tramplers on religious freedom, asked the mosque organizers "to show some special sensitivity to the situation." Yet, as columnist Rich Lowry pointedly noted, the government has no business telling churches how to conduct their business, shape their message or show "special sensitivity" to anyone about anything. Bloomberg was thereby inadvertently conceding the claim of those he excoriates for opposing the mosque, namely that Ground Zero is indeed unlike any other place and therefore unique criteria govern what can be done there.

Bloomberg's implication is clear: If the proposed mosque were controlled by "insensitive" Islamist radicals either excusing or celebrating 9/11, he would not support its construction.

But then, why not? By the mayor's own expansive view of religious freedom, by what right do we dictate the message of any mosque? Moreover, as a practical matter, there's no guarantee that this couldn't happen in the future. Religious institutions in this country are autonomous. Who is to say that the mosque won't one day hire an Anwar al-Aulaqi -- spiritual mentor to the Fort Hood shooter and the Christmas Day bomber, and onetime imam at the Virginia mosque attended by two of the 9/11 terrorists?

An Aulaqi preaching in Virginia is a security problem. An Aulaqi preaching at Ground Zero is a sacrilege. Or would the mayor then step in -- violating the same First Amendment he grandiosely pretends to protect from mosque opponents -- and exercise a veto over the mosque's clergy?

Location matters. Especially this location. Ground Zero is the site of the greatest mass murder in American history -- perpetrated by Muslims of a particular Islamist orthodoxy in whose cause they died and in whose name they killed.

Of course that strain represents only a minority of Muslims. Islam is no more intrinsically Islamist than present-day Germany is Nazi -- yet despite contemporary Germany's innocence, no German of goodwill would even think of proposing a German cultural center at, say, Treblinka.

Which makes you wonder about the goodwill behind Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf's proposal. This is a man who has called U.S. policy "an accessory to the crime" of 9/11 and, when recently asked whether Hamas is a terrorist organization, replied, "I'm not a politician. . . . The issue of terrorism is a very complex question."

America is a free country where you can build whatever you want -- but not anywhere. That's why we have zoning laws. No liquor store near a school, no strip malls where they offend local sensibilities, and, if your house doesn't meet community architectural codes, you cannot build at all.

These restrictions are for reasons of aesthetics. Others are for more profound reasons of common decency and respect for the sacred. No commercial tower over Gettysburg, no convent at Auschwitz -- and no mosque at Ground Zero.

Build it anywhere but there.

The governor of New York offered to help find land to build the mosque elsewhere. A mosque really seeking to build bridges, Rauf's ostensible hope for the structure, would accept the offer.

[billybob]

Some of this so called, reasoning is just bull shit, why do you think of all the places they could build it, they picked that spot. American had better wake up!!!

[maverick35]

Old Mav realizes exactly u mean they exactly just only gona build one 1 Mosque no not 2 3 Mosques H*ll ring the whole 9 11 memorial area with Mosques right RIGHT and so build a Mosque across the street from the Presidential White House right RIGHT and so who needs Lafeyete Park right RIGHT and so old Mav realizes exactly Islam and so N**ism no not any difference right RIGHT and so all Arabs go Seil Hieling all the time right RIGHT and so luckily they no not physicialy attack old Mav right RIGHT and so old Mav realizes lucky for old Mav they no not take old Mav seriously and so old Mav needs a miracle sorry right... sorry old Mav