Health Care

[Moab]

Please Sky .. think a little before you type.

You can fire a union member. The diffrence is you must prove you are fireing for a contract violation or one of the cardinal sins. Theft, drinking or drugs, refusing work as outlined in the contract, fighting and dishonesty. What the union does is protect an employer for fireing because of race or ethnics and other personal issues. It keeps you from fireing because you want your friend to have that job.

Here in Oregon a employer may fire anyone without cause. If they are union they must follow the rules of termination or discipline made between the company and employees and follow the grievance procedure. If the employee. And that's what you employers want total control so don't blame it on the unions.

If you have in your contract a employee mus sell 'X" numbers of Tweekos and all other employees are making their quota and Joe Dokes isn't then you can fire Joe .. Joe then files a grievance if talks between the employer and union fail to get Joe rehired. Joe proves that on his route conditions make it near imposable for Joe to make his quota. Joe is rehired back pay is made and the route is readjusted so Joe can make the quota or the employer and union can negotiate a lower quota for that route.

[bluffmanxx]

of course it's not impossible. but with the added expense of legal BS it's probably cheaper to keep a crappy employee than try to fire them, pay lawyers, then possibly have to pay back wages take them back and make accomodations.

maybe you need to think a bit moab. why would a business want to fire a productive employee?? us greedy bastards want to use and abuse the "good" employees, right?? not saying there are never instances of unfair termination, but any business that does fire productive workers probably won't be around too long.

[Moab]

Because they can if they are non union ..

Also the employee is 20 years with the company at peak of production and near retirement .. Why invest more money in that employee .. fire them and save on retirement and then hire the replacement at lower wages. 1987 paper on this subject from my old college daze ..

Also your disdain for the union shows when you and sky always refer to the employees as lazy.

Also management has a history of labor abuses leading to the formation of modern labor laws. Management when can't destroy unions or lessen their impact lobbied congress for lower wage laws in the service sector (your sector) and were paid taxpayer money to move production offshore.

[bluffmanxx]

show me where i have made generalizations about "lazy" workers. yes, they exisit, to say they don't would be foolish. but in general, most people realize that they need to do a decent job to stay employed. unless of course they are protected even if they don't do a good job.

like i said, life is about balance. having the unions on one side is part of the balancing equation. without them there would be wide spread abuses by employers. but...give all the control to the unions, and the pendulum swings. i am against the unions having too much power just as i'm againnst the employers being able to make unreasonable demands of workers. balance. it's a beautiful thing.

[Moab]

crappy employee = lazy, useless, worthless, untrustworthy,dumb and etc.

My objection to this is as a employer in almost all circumstances you have the right as the employer to hire who you wis. You in many of the most liberal states hire off the street if the employee meets the contractual where both the union and management is the requirement for the job.

If you were in Oregon and you needed a bartender and wanted one that has 10 years in big bar with management skills. You call the union and all that you send out don't fit your need .... you have the right to hire off the street and within the time requirement have the member enrolled in the union. Now if that employee later turns out to have lied to you about his work history who's fault is it?

Another little known fact about unions and work, no union ever has the right to prevent the company form making a profit and must negotiate with federal mediators to see if the company has a legitimate cause for change in contract or operation. If so and the employer see a need to reduce labor in a department only qualified employees may transfer to new or existing work using seniority to bump others or the non qualified.

In your case you may have to many servers so you need to cut back 3 you go to the union show cause with the local NLRB rep. If your case is won then the 3 to be cut positions may bump the bartenders if they meet your requirement if they have seniority. Same goes for that crappy employee. Contact the Union set up a meeting if you have a case where Mr. Stupid isn't qualified for the job and lied ... termination without cause for violating the Cardinal sins or if Mr. Stupid can't take another position in the company that fits his skills then he is terminate.

[billybob]

OK, I know i will get in trouble for this post, but here goes!!! There was a time when unions were needed, the owners mistreated their employees. Now their are government guides lines that take care of those things. I use to go in some of the auto plants where people were making a hell of a lot of money doing something that any one could do. Unions just kind of got out of control, in my opinion, companies caved in to them, and prices for retail products had to get out of control to meet their demands. I think the auto mfg. companies are good examples. Like I said, just my opinion, am not going to argues with any one.

[Moab]

Simple answer ... when you have an industry that management, the top 10 make almost as much as all of the rank-and-file in bonus's and wages is so out of touch with what's going on they because they only see the bottom line are out of control.

These Ex's were making cars no one wanted or needed what they were doing was using the employees pension funds to invest in the out of control stock market. These people didn't want to make reconciliation with the unions on modernizing the plants until the shit hit the fan then they ask and got wage cuts, job out sourcing, pension and benefits cuts and these greedy bastards haven't learned one thing as of yet ... they didn't takes cuts unless forced to buy the people doing the bailouts.

[Moab]

I might add .. Sky employees commission workers:

Commissions and the Minimum Wage:

Under the Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA), employees covered by the Act who are paid on commission must be paid at least the minimum wage, just as employees who are paid by the hour or piece.

Commissions and Overtime:

Under the FLSA, employees covered by the Act must receive overtime pay for hours worked in excess of 40 hours in a workweek at a rate of at least one and one-half times their regular rate of pay. Their "regular rate of pay" includes commissions.

FLSA, Section 7(i), exempts certain employees of retail and service establishments who are paid on a commission basis in whole or part from the FLSA's overtime pay regulations. There are two requirements for a business to be considered a "retail or service establishment":

1. Seventy-five percent (75%) of the annual dollar volume of the sales of goods or services (or of both) come from sales that are not resale; and
2. The sales of goods or services (or of both) are recognized as retail sales in the particular industry.

If a retail or service employer wants to use the Section 7(i) overtime exemption for commissioned employees, three conditions must be met:

1. The employee must be employed by a retail or service establishment; and
2. The employee's regular rate of pay must exceed one and one-half times the applicable minimum wage for every hour worked in a workweek; and
3. More than half the employee's total earnings in a representative period must consist of commissions on goods or services.

Unless all three conditions are met, the Section 7(i) exemption is not applicable, and overtime pay must be paid for all hours worked over 40 in a workweek at one and one-half the regular rate of pay, which includes commissions.

Some employers bypass this law having the employee sign a self-employment contract.

Tax considerations and 1099 workers

Some companies try to designate employees as 1099 workers so they can avoid taxes. Even though employees are responsible for paying their own taxes, it’s the employer that’s responsible for making the right determination of 1099 worker status.

Bluff is of no interest to the Unions .. He's a small business; Bar I believe and with a small workforce.

One of the most fundamental rules governing the wages that must be paid to tipped employees is that the average hourly rate of pay must at least equal the minimum wage (soon to be $7.25 per hour) when tips and direct wages are combined. Tipped employees in Texas must be paid a direct wage of $2.13 per hour or more. Anything that reduces one’s rate of pay below the minimum wage is cause for concern. Some common problems that face restaurant workers are:

* Reduced pay for breakages or walked checks
* Compulsory tip sharing in excess of the tip credit
* Compulsory tip sharing with non-tipped employees
* Failure to acknowledge large-party gratuities as wages instead of tips
* Failure to pay at overtime rate

[skyguy2007]

We offer new employees a choice, $400 per week + 12% commission or 29% straight commission. The average weekly sales for commission only state reps is $8500, average for those who chose salary plus commission, $3800...go figure. We pay health premiums for all reps based on results, commissioned people for the most part pay almost nothing, salary peeps pay an average 60% of their premium.

[Moab]

And a union wouldn't be needed in your program. Good luck finding good people .. Btw what do you sell?