Guilty on 4 of 5 counts...

[GhostFromThePast]

Earlier today, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former Chief of Staff for Vice President Dick Cheney, was found guilty on 4 of 5 charges of obstruction, lying under oath to FBI investigators, and lying under oath to a grand jury in relation to the investigation of the outing of former CIA operative Valerie Plame-Wilson. A lot of speculation has gone on with respect to the reasons behind and the after-effects of this trial in relation to the war on Iraq, and most notably, whether or not charges will be brought against Cheney and Carl Rove. There's also speculation on whether or not President Bush should or will pardon Libby.

So what do you think? Will Bush pardon Libby? Should federal investigators go after the VP and Rove? Any other thoughts?

[Nynus]

FYI - Libby WASN'T on trial for outing a covert operative, and to date, no one has proven that Plame was a covert operative. Basically, Libby got nailed for procedural problems during the investigation.

i.e. he said one thing during the beginning stages, and changed it after consulting his notes.

These convictions had nothing to do with the war, the CIA, Cheney, Rove or Bush.

[GhostFromThePast]

FYI, I never said he was on trial for outing anything, he was on trial for obstruction and lying under oath during the course of a federal investigation of the outing of Valerie Plame-Wilson's identity. Get your facts straight. No one has proven she was an operative? It doesn't have to be proven. The investigation and trial brought it out. That's common knowledge now, Paul. If it wasn't, she'd still be with the CIA and there never would've been a trial to begin with. Don't be obtuse.

[motherfunky]

Well you must be better informed than the BBC who report

Two charges of perjury

Two counts of making a false statement

One charge of obstruction of justice

They also mention the War, Rove, Cheny and Bush _ a full house.


Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid said the bigger picture was "about how the Bush White House manufactured and manipulated intelligence in order to bolster its case for the war in Iraq and to discredit anyone who dared to challenge the president".

Ms Plame's identity was leaked after her husband, diplomat Joseph Wilson, accused the Bush administration of manipulating intelligence to support military action against Iraq.

[Nynus]

FYI, I never said he was on trial for outing anything, he was on trial for obstruction and lying under oath during the course of a federal investigation of the outing of Valerie Plame-Wilson's identity. Get your facts straight. No one has proven she was an operative? It doesn't have to be proven. The investigation and trial brought it out. That's common knowledge now, Paul. If it wasn't, she'd still be with the CIA and there never would've been a trial to begin with. Don't be obtuse.

Not necessarily. It's been a common practice for the past couple of decades to criminalize politics by making an accusation, (Usually untrue) then holding an investigation. During the course of this investigation, if anything doesn't get shaken loose, there is usually an investigation into the investigation, and anybody that happened to 'slip up', forget, or lie, get's charges brought against them.

Of course the media reports it as "Charges brought about resulting from the investigation of <insert bogus charge here>" The reality is, the charges were brought about BECAUSE of the investigation of the investigation.

The charges weren't important, neither was getting a conviction. The important part was to make the news.

[Nynus]

At the time of her 'so called outing' Valerie Plame was working openly at the CIA. She drove there daily, she had a CIA parking pass on her car, and it was common knowledge.

No one has EVER been charged with outing her, they were charged with fucking up during the investigative questioning.

However, the investigations were a good reason to shake things up and see what fell out. Namely, the Liberals wanted Rove out. They didn't give a shit about 'Scooter'.

And of COURSE they are going to mention Bush, Cheney, Rove, and Iraq. They were the ORIGINAL investigation, but they meant absolutely shit when it came to the Libby charges.

[Nynus]

Well you must be better informed than the BBC who report

Two charges of perjury

Two counts of making a false statement

One charge of obstruction of justice

They also mention the War, Rove, Cheny and Bush _ a full house.


Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid said the bigger picture was "about how the Bush White House manufactured and manipulated intelligence in order to bolster its case for the war in Iraq and to discredit anyone who dared to challenge the president".

Ms Plame's identity was leaked after her husband, diplomat Joseph Wilson, accused the Bush administration of manipulating intelligence to support military action against Iraq.

MF, that's a link to a October 2005 story about the indictment. Not about the conviction. But even that story shows you the surrounding hype about the story. When you read the story, the facts are: Libby was charged with lying and providing false evidence to investigators while under other. Nothing else.

Was he charged with covering up for Bush, Rove, and Cheney? No.

Was he charged with outing Valerie Plame? No.

Was he charged with kicking puppies? No.

He was charge with stating one thing during the initial phases of an investigation, and then when Libby's supened notes differed with an earlier statement he made without the benefits of referring to his notes, he was charged with perjury et. al.

The press, the liberals, and the conspiracy theorists would love to have you believe that there was a big cover up. But simple stories don't sell advertising on the news, so "wala", everything else gets brought back up to smoke screen the boring and simplistic truth.

[GhostFromThePast]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair_timeline

[GhostFromThePast]

I'm sorry Paul, but this is really bugging me and I need to clear this up:

In my first post I said:

Earlier today, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former Chief of Staff for Vice President Dick Cheney, was found guilty on 4 of 5 charges of obstruction, lying under oath to FBI investigators, and lying under oath to a grand jury in relation to the investigation of the outing of former CIA operative Valerie Plame-Wilson.

You came back and claimed that, in effect, what I said was this:

Libby was (sic) on trial for outing a covert operative...

Which was not what I said at all. If you analyze my first post statement we have, in essence, what I said in my next post:

... he was on trial for obstruction and lying under oath during the course of a federal investigation of the outing of Valerie Plame-Wilson's identity.

...which is essentially the same as what I said in the first post.

I just really needed to get that in the open and out of the way. I'll be back later to talk about the rest of the stuff.

[Nynus]

LOL - sorry, the FYI wasn't for you Eddie, it was for anyone reading that got the impression, (like most do when it's reported that way in the media) that he was convicted of outing, a non-covert "travel secretary" in the CIA. Your wording was precise and accurate.

I should have clarified my response.....