Are poker sites Rigged ?

[StevieJS]

After a continuous run of bad beats, I sent an email to Full Tilt suggesting that their site is rigged.
I got an interesting reply which kind of changed my thinking. what are your thoughts/Comments on this subject?

QUOTE:

"Hello Steven,

Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Support.

As an avid poker player, I understand your frustrations with bad beats and general negative variance. I have myself been through prolonged streaks of both good and bad luck.

Remember that poker is different from other forms of online betting in that you never play against the house. Your funds are never lost to Full Tilt Poker, only to other players. Rake and tournament fees are unaffected by who wins or who loses, as our tournament fees are collected at the outset of the tournament, and our rake is always collected from the winner of the hand. There would be no benefit for us to rig the deck to favor certain players over others.

Manipulating the dealing of cards does nothing to increase our revenue and everything to minimize it--it would be financial suicide as a business decision to engage in such unethical activity, ruining our reputation. Understand that your losses are not translated into our gains; the player who has won the money from you has gained to be sure, but this is completely unrelated to how our revenue is derived.

Understand that there is no "doom switch" but there certainly is statistical variance. In the short-run, variance is such a large factor in poker, and many players will receive more than their expected average of premium hands in terms of card distribution and consequently at times, less than their expected average of premium hands. The same can be said in terms of hitting flops and completing draws or having hands hold up. It is only when speaking of tens of thousands of hands that personal statistics begin to approach its theoretical expectation.

It is well known that an excellent player that may win from 1 to 2 big bets an hour playing limit can lose 300-500 big bets, and a winning no-limit player can endure a run of 20 or more buy-in losses, again due to variance. In Sit and Gos, 20 to 30 session droughts in which a player does not cash are not uncommon. Knowledge of these statistics will not make players immune to bad beats--nobody is--however, they will react better when these inevitable bad runs do occur.

For players that play this game for a living, it is imperative that they keep a very large bankroll to endure such fluctuation. These bankroll fluctuations are taken into account, and professionals are very conscientious of when to move down limits to lower their risk of ruination to a reasonable level. Also, these same players are very honest with themselves, analyzing when they are running bad, and when they are playing bad. It is often the level of honesty that separates an excellent player from someone who is merely above average.

I strongly suggest that you visit the poker forums in the link below; it is the largest poker forum that is visited by many poker enthusiasts such as yourself, and is an unbiased third party to our site (and any other poker sites in business). I believe that the voice of the general poker community will be more persuasive in dissuading you of your belief that online poker is rigged".

[shebully]

riiiiiiight i know something is written there, but i still think they have that doom switch there lmao

[bluffmanxx]

just curious...what did you expect them to say???

[StevieJS]

just curious...what did you expect them to say???

Just an answer Doug.. Just an answer

[spaceboy761]

Yes. All of them.

[WinJStar]

Think I'm going to add a poll.

[fuzzidrawers]

its the random card thing.Just like video draw poker.With the cards continuously shuffling it makes it way different than live play.
I still think they put players at tables and feed them cards.But I think I'm a little paranoid
LOL

[bluffmanxx]

You tell me

Full Tilt Poker Game #6893598054: Luvinpoker LeaderBoard Game (51702027), Table 2 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:50:02 ET - 2008/06/19
Dale45 (Observer): gg
Seat 1: LadyWrestler (1,470)
Seat 2: sipowitz56 (2,065)
Seat 3: trauma71367 (1,725)
Seat 5: eastmidwest (1,355)
Seat 6: winjstar (500)
Seat 7: MJplayer (2,327)
Seat 8: bluffmanxx (2,250)
Seat 9: CJDavis1 (3,308)
bluffmanxx posts the small blind of 30
CJDavis1 posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bluffmanxx [As Ad]
LadyWrestler: gg
LadyWrestler folds
sipowitz56: gg
sipowitz56 folds
trauma71367: gg
trauma71367 folds
eastmidwest calls 60
winjstar has 15 seconds left to act
winjstar raises to 500, and is all in
MJplayer calls 500
winjstar: gg
bluffmanxx has 15 seconds left to act
bluffmanxx raises to 2,250, and is all in
CJDavis1 folds
eastmidwest folds
MJplayer: DUGGIE
MJplayer has 15 seconds left to act
MJplayer folds
bluffmanxx shows [As Ad]
winjstar shows [7d 7s]
Uncalled bet of 1,750 returned to bluffmanxx
*** FLOP *** [4h 2h 3s]
*** TURN *** [4h 2h 3s] [5c]
*** RIVER *** [4h 2h 3s 5c] [6d]
bluffmanxx shows a straight, Six high
winjstar shows a straight, Seven high
winjstar wins the pot (1,620) with a straight, Seven high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,620 | Rake 0
Board: [4h 2h 3s 5c 6d]
Seat 1: LadyWrestler didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: sipowitz56 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: trauma71367 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: eastmidwest folded before the Flop
Seat 6: winjstar showed [7d 7s] and won (1,620) with a straight, Seven high
Seat 7: MJplayer (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: bluffmanxx (small blind) showed [As Ad] and lost with a straight, Six high
Seat 9: CJDavis1 (big blind) folded before the Flop

is there anyone who was at the table watching the cards come out that didn't "KNOW" the 6 was coming on the river?? shit like that happens so often that most people who play frequently actually expect it and are shocked when the card doesn't come.

[BKlounge14]

After last night of course I'm going to go with yes! As some of you may have already read...I had AA in the bb some dude raises then the guy in front of him called. Finally came to me so of course I pushed all in! The first guy who raised folded then (chip leader at table) calls my all in. I see his cards 8h 10h I was like what a moron...flop comes out 2 hearts...now I'm thinking Oh Shit please lay 2 black cards...of course the turn provides him with his flush and I was gone! Plus I can't count how many times I have seen pocket AA and KK dealt out in the same hand. Can you count how many times you see AA vs KK at every table you've played at?? TOO MANY! Now in your home games how many times have you seen that? Too be honest I don't think I've seen it once...but it could be different for others...alright I'm done! See you at the tables!

[fuzzidrawers]

You tell me

Full Tilt Poker Game #6893598054: Luvinpoker LeaderBoard Game (51702027), Table 2 - 30/60 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:50:02 ET - 2008/06/19
Dale45 (Observer): gg
Seat 1: LadyWrestler (1,470)
Seat 2: sipowitz56 (2,065)
Seat 3: trauma71367 (1,725)
Seat 5: eastmidwest (1,355)
Seat 6: winjstar (500)
Seat 7: MJplayer (2,327)
Seat 8: bluffmanxx (2,250)
Seat 9: CJDavis1 (3,308)
bluffmanxx posts the small blind of 30
CJDavis1 posts the big blind of 60
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bluffmanxx [As Ad]
LadyWrestler: gg
LadyWrestler folds
sipowitz56: gg
sipowitz56 folds
trauma71367: gg
trauma71367 folds
eastmidwest calls 60
winjstar has 15 seconds left to act
winjstar raises to 500, and is all in
MJplayer calls 500
winjstar: gg
bluffmanxx has 15 seconds left to act
bluffmanxx raises to 2,250, and is all in
CJDavis1 folds
eastmidwest folds
MJplayer: DUGGIE
MJplayer has 15 seconds left to act
MJplayer folds
bluffmanxx shows [As Ad]
winjstar shows [7d 7s]
Uncalled bet of 1,750 returned to bluffmanxx
*** FLOP *** [4h 2h 3s]
*** TURN *** [4h 2h 3s] [5c]
*** RIVER *** [4h 2h 3s 5c] [6d]
bluffmanxx shows a straight, Six high
winjstar shows a straight, Seven high
winjstar wins the pot (1,620) with a straight, Seven high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,620 | Rake 0
Board: [4h 2h 3s 5c 6d]
Seat 1: LadyWrestler didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: sipowitz56 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: trauma71367 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: eastmidwest folded before the Flop
Seat 6: winjstar showed [7d 7s] and won (1,620) with a straight, Seven high
Seat 7: MJplayer (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: bluffmanxx (small blind) showed [As Ad] and lost with a straight, Six high
Seat 9: CJDavis1 (big blind) folded before the Flop

is there anyone who was at the table watching the cards come out that didn't "KNOW" the 6 was coming on the river?? shit like that happens so often that most people who play frequently actually expect it and are shocked when the card doesn't come.

I wasn't there and knew it ...lol I know your pain so well
but Jen was short stack